English Grammar


Genitive

In some cases the genitive is formed by adding an "'s" at the end of the word - or only an apostrophe as the word ends with an s.
It's notebly used to doing so with names of persons to mark the relation of owning, sharing...
so I read "the guerillas' alliance", "the boy's bike"...
But I think also in other cases.
I'd be very pleased to known the rules.
Or at least where to find them on the internet.
Thanks in advance for helping me.

11 comments

  • No answer, no thanks owed.
    In my previous message, please read "notably" instead of what's written.
    And "But I also think of further cases" and add "that I don't know quite well."
    Any further answer would be thanked though.
  • From Gee:
    No answer, no thanks owed.
    In my previous message, please read "notably" instead of what's written.
    And "But I also think of further cases" and add "that I don't know quite well."
    Any further answer would be thanked though.

     
  • Hi Gee!
    here Ba trying to answer... better to give you a link where you can find an answer...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genitive
    Are you also a gymglish'''''ssss student?
    Are you French?
    see you soon






    From Gee:
    No answer, no thanks owed.
    In my previous message, please read "notably" instead of what's written.
    And "But I also think of further cases" and add "that I don't know quite well."
    Any further answer would be thanked though.

     
  • 1. That's very kind of you, Ba, to hand me that link over.
    Yet I often go to Wikipedia for information. I had never thought to use it for grammar.
    2. Of course I'm a Gymglish regular user. I've been it since February yet. I intend to still remain in that status for a long time.
    3. I'm not French. Only Belgian.
    Read you soon.




    From Ba:
    Hi Gee!
    here Ba trying to answer... better to give you a link where you can find an answer...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genitive
    Are you also a gymglish'''''ssss student?
    Are you French?
    see you soon






     
  • On today's Zina's diary (see Forum column "..lounge - Talking) we read that Zina went to Baden-Baden to visit a Chagall's exhibition.
    The 's marker for genitive forms gives me a headache.


    Following the Ba's here above information, I looked up in the Wikipedia.
    It seems that the 's marker is used as
    1. possesive marker e.g. Ba's answer, Zina's diary;
    2. origin e.g. Chagall's paintings;
    3. classification e.g. a Midsummer Night's dream, the today's report;
    4. purpose e.g. children's litterature, women's shoes.


    In my opinion we should say Chagall exhibition.
    To back my position, I'll use a comparison.
    Let's suppose that a singer named Zina has many fans getting together in fan club. The club would be called "Zina fan club". A 's genitive marker put after Zina's name could mislead to think that Zina is the owner of the club.


    If anyone well up in English language would give me further information on that awkward issue, I'd be so grateful.
  • From Gee:
    No answer, no thanks owed.
    In my previous message, please read "notably" instead of what's written.
    And "But I also think of further cases" and add "that I don't know quite well."
    Any further answer would be thanked though.

     
  • Thanks to you Gee to have set up my fan club !
    Unfortunately I have no response to the question about the 's genitive marker but I think you were right I made a mistake... It sounds better as you said "Chagall exhibition"...
    Then, I read my grammar book and I found (in French):
    Différents type de liens entre les noms :
    1- lien de type posséssion
    Charles's friend ; the city's soul ; the park's first commissioners (le sens de posséssion est "bizarre" ici, le parc ne possèdant pas ses créateurs (sic) ; the Right's landslide victory
    2 - lien de type repère temporel
    Tuesday's savage beating : death's door ; the next morning's plane
    3 - lien de type caractérisation
    a woman's body ; the loveliest young woman's figure
    but just after those exemples there is a part that explain that we must compare those expressions to others in the chapter using "of" : la possession peut être exprimée par of ou 's et 's peut ne pas exprimer la possession. Ce qui oppose ces deux manières de s'exprimer s'explique par le statut du nom qui suit of ou qui est porteur du 's. en fonction du contexte, l'énonciateur peut choisir l'un ou l'autre. of est la stratégie retenue quand l'énonciateur pose des données, installe un contexte etc.
    exemple : a world in which the children of people like me aren't treated normally
    "he's Lord Brigsley, the eldest son of the Earl of Louth, sir" = l'énonciateur apporte 3 informations importantes le nom de l'inconnu, son rang (the elder son), la personne avec qui il est parent (Earl Louth);


    The only sad event was the death of my father last winter.
    The children found the body of a woman near Saltburn yersterday


    I hope that this will be some usefull for you....
  • I read more about the status (statut in french) of the names considering the use of "of" or "'s"...


    In the sample :
    Jones is the brother of Rachel Jones Koresh, David Koresh's wife.


    présentation en "statut posé" de Jones - on ne le connait pas encore, on le présente, il est le frère de Rachel, on pose la définition avec des repères qu'on introduit progressivement avec "of" -
    explicitation du statut de Rachel, elle aussi en "statut posé" (on ne la connaît pas encore) par rapport à un personnage connu (on en a déjà parlé, on sait qui il est, c'est le personnage célèbre ou connu de la phrase) : David Koresh. ceci fait que D. K. est en "statut repris" et donc suivi de s'.
    Pour définir Jones qu'on ne connaît pas, on se réfère à sa soeur Rachel qu'on ne connaît pas non plus, qui est la femme de Untel (et lui, on le connaît)




    Is it clear ? For myself, I think that I have learned something.
  • My reply to Zina's kind explanation:


    I hardly could read you tonight, Zina, for I've been overwhelmed last days and haven't come round the forum for a while.


    I think a great deal of your elaborate comments.
    I learned a lot about it by reading your notes even though I'd looked up in an online dictionary yet.
    I also noticed that the language is developing and sometimes in the daily press a 's genitive is used when I wouldn't have expected it.
    Thanks a lot.
    And keep up the good work.

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