subjuntiv

Jackbet

User since 2007
Posts: 6

18 Jan. 2008

do we say I want you to come or I want you come an why?
thanks

Silky

User since 2005
Posts: 113

21 Jan. 2008

No, Lucky Bastard, you are not hopeless at grammar. Nor are you bold.
My explanation wasn't clear and I am pleased there is at least one person on this Forum who has noticed it (or maybe read it!).
Instead of writing:"The pronoun that comes after the verbs mentioned above is the object" I should have written:" Use the object pronoun- instead of the subject pronoun- between the following verbs and to.

So Lucky Bastard, EITHER you desire Jackbet and then you tell him: "I fancy you, Jackbet" OR you want Jackbet/him to be a hero, which is more likely I guess...
I hope it is clearer this way.

I wish Jackbet (the hero of the day) and Lucky Bastard (the one who is eager to learn) a wonderful week.

Silky

User since 2005
Posts: 113

19 Jan. 2008

Hello Jackbet,

We say I want you TO come.

The subjunctive is used after to want, to expect, to ask, would like, would prefer etc

Be careful: the pronoun that comes after the verbs mentioned above is the object.

I want HIM to come.
He would like ME to help him.
I expected THEM to stay later.

You are welcome!

AhQ ['a: kiu]

User since 2006
Posts: 2715

22 Jan. 2008

I am amazed by your clear explanation, Silky. With a pronoun as object, it comes without any possible confusion.
But that makes me think that English grammar is not so much logical. It's no use being logic or pondering to much about how to put words together, we just need to talk as they talk, to learn it parrot.

Bon dia, Jackbet. Don't you think Silky is a good teacher?

AhQ ['a: kiu]

User since 2006
Posts: 2715

20 Jan. 2008

Greeting, Silky.

I am a mere naught in grammar.
Besides I am used to being utterly bold.
So, I am so bold as to ask you some further information about your note concerning the subjunctive following to want, to expect, to ask,...

You say the pronoun (or noun, I presume) coming after the verb want, expect, would like and so on, is the object of that verb.
That made me mull over it unsuccesfully.

Let's take as example the sentence: I want Jackbet to be a hero.

If Jackbet is the object of 'want', it could mean that I desire Jackbet.
And yet I don't desire Jackbet himself. What I desire (want, wish) is that Jackbet be a hero. From that standpoint, I'd rather logically take Jackbet for the subject of "to be a hero"; and as object of 'want', I'd rather take the whole clause "Jackbet to be a hero".

Of course, there is that idiomatic way of putting that wretched TO before the infinitive used as subjunctive, and that is the particular case of coming after the verbs you mentioned. Otherwise, I remind beginners, if need be, that the infinitive serves as subjunctive without the wretched particle (If need be, and not 'if need to be'!!!).

I would like you, Silky, to definitely fix me on the issue. Am I totally off the mark, or can my stance match yours, or at least stand aside?

Puzzled bastard.

Greeting, Silky.  
 
 
 I am a mere naught in grammar. 
 Besides I am used to being utterly bold. 
 So, I am so bold as to ask you some further information about your note concerning the subjunctive following to want, to expect, to ask,...  
 
 
 You say the pronoun (or noun, I presume) coming after the verb want, expect, would like and so on, is the object of that verb. 
 That made me mull over it unsuccesfully.  
 
 
 Let's take as example the sentence: I want Jackbet to be a hero.  
 
 
 If Jackbet is the object of 'want', it could mean that I desire Jackbet. 
 And yet I don't desire Jackbet himself. What I desire (want, wish) is that Jackbet be a hero. From that standpoint, I'd rather logically take Jackbet for the subject of "to be a hero"; and as object of 'want', I'd rather take the whole clause "Jackbet to be a hero".  
 
 
 Of course, there is that idiomatic way of putting that wretched TO before the infinitive used as subjunctive, and that is the particular case of coming after the verbs you mentioned. Otherwise, I remind beginners, if need be, that the infinitive serves as subjunctive without the wretched particle (If need be, and not 'if need to be'!!!).  
 
 
 I would like you, Silky, to definitely fix me on the issue. Am I totally off the mark, or can my stance match yours, or at least stand aside?  
 
 
 Puzzled bastard.

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