English Vocabulary

secure but not safe

AhQ ['a: kiu]

User since 2006
Posts: 2715

24 March 2009

Who would be so kind as to tell me if it is possible to be secure without being safe?

7 comments

VILLAVERDE
User since 2007
Posts: 14
26 March 2009

HI GEE!!

AS ICARUS TELL TO HORATIO , THIS IS A TRICKY QUESTION TO SOLVE!! I THINK IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU WANT TO ENSURE.

JOURNALIST MAY ENTER THE DANGER ZONE BUT UNFORTUNATELY THE GOVERNEMENTS CANNOT GUARANTEE/ASSURE THEIR SAFETY. THEY COULD BE PROTECTED AND KEEP SECURE FROM BOMB ATTACS IF THEY REMAIN IN THE HOTEL

BUT I THINK YOU KNOW PERFECTLY THE USAGE BETWEEN SAFETY OR SECURITY? ISN´T?
HI GEE!! AS ICARUS TELL TO HORATIO , THIS IS A TRICKY QUESTION TO SOLVE!! I THINK IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU WANT TO ENSURE. JOURNALIST MAY ENTER THE DANGER ZONE BUT UNFORTUNATELY THE GOVERNEMENTS CANNOT GUARANTEE/ASSURE THEIR SAFETY. THEY COULD BE PROTECTED AND KEEP SECURE FROM BOMB ATTACS IF THEY REMAIN IN THE HOTEL BUT I THINK YOU KNOW PERFECTLY THE USAGE BETWEEN SAFETY OR SECURITY? ISN´T?
AhQ ['a: kiu]
User since 2006
Posts: 2715
26 March 2009

Hiya Villaverde le Magnifico!

I am very pleased to get a follow-up to the tricky question I raised only two days ago.

If I catch what you mean, secure -as an adjective- would be more or less a synonym of insured. Secure should rather be related to a mean insuring or guaranteeing the safety.

I would first make out "secure" from "secured" which points out a guarantee (ex. a loan may be secured/guaranteed by somebody's endorsement.)

Secure, according to my dictionary, comes from [se-cura, without care]. The meanings listed by the Webster's are
1a. confident, easy in mind (no need to take care of)
1b. assured in expectation, having no doubt.
2a free from danger
2b free from risk of loss
2c affording safety (a secure hideaway, a secure retreat)
3 assured, certain (a secure victory)

Safe, according to the same book, comes from [salvus, safe, healthy]. Meanings as listed by the same dictionary:
1 freed from harm, unhurt.
2 secure from thread of danger
3 affording safety from danger
4 healthy, sound
5 harmless
6 unlikely to produce controversy
7 not liabole to take risks, cautious; trustworthy, reliable

And the Webster's adds something this way:
SAFE and SECURE are synonyms as long as they share the meaning element "free from danger or risk".

Hence I am to agree with you as far as you let me know that words are not to be learned in dictionaries but in various contexts of writings and speechs.

What made me wonder about the words, it's that I read this quotation by Benjamin Franklin "He that's secure is not safe".

Now that I caught your say, I think I am a bit nearer to the thought. Thank you so much! A journalist might be secure thanks to provisions made by his governement, but that doesn't mean he is safe.

You know much more than you look it, don't you?

[CS] Mind the question tags.
It is hot, isn't it?
I think you know it, don't you. -> think is not an auxiliary verb, hence the question tag uses do.
I hope to reading you more often henceforth.
Enjoy the life, Villaverde!
Gee

[CW]
Hiya Villaverde le Magnifico! I am very pleased to get a follow-up to the tricky question I raised only two days ago. If I catch what you mean, secure -as an adjective- would be more or less a synonym of insured. Secure should rather be related to a mean insuring or guaranteeing the safety. I would first make out "secure" from "secured" which points out a guarantee (ex. a loan may be secured/guaranteed by somebody's endorsement.) Secure, according to my dictionary, comes from [se-cura, without care]. The meanings listed by the Webster's are 1a. confident, easy in mind (no need to take care of) 1b. assured in expectation, having no doubt. 2a free from danger 2b free from risk of loss 2c affording safety (a secure hideaway, a secure retreat) 3 assured, certain (a secure victory) Safe, according to the same book, comes from [salvus, safe, healthy]. Meanings as listed by the same dictionary: 1 freed from harm, unhurt. 2 secure from thread of danger 3 affording safety from danger 4 healthy, sound 5 harmless 6 unlikely to produce controversy 7 not liabole to take risks, cautious; trustworthy, reliable And the Webster's adds something this way: SAFE and SECURE are synonyms as long as they share the meaning element "free from danger or risk". Hence I am to agree with you as far as you let me know that words are not to be learned in dictionaries but in various contexts of writings and speechs. What made me wonder about the words, it's that I read this quotation by Benjamin Franklin "He that's secure is not safe". Now that I caught your say, I think I am a bit nearer to the thought. Thank you so much! A journalist might be secure thanks to provisions made by his governement, but that doesn't mean he is safe. You know much more than you look it, don't you? [CS] Mind the question tags. It is hot, isn't it? I think you know it, don't you. -> think is not an auxiliary verb, hence the question tag uses do. I hope to reading you more often henceforth. Enjoy the life, Villaverde! Gee [CW]
LiLi
User since 2009
Posts: 72
27 March 2009

Read on the Net:

"Olympics were safe, secure, and worth the risk"

By ART THIEL
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER COLUMNIST

Not very reassuring...
Read on the Net: "Olympics were safe, secure, and worth the risk" By ART THIEL SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER COLUMNIST Not very reassuring...
AhQ ['a: kiu]
User since 2006
Posts: 2715
27 March 2009

"He that's secure is not safe."
As often in short sayings the subtlety lies in shades of word meanings.

Who is secure
- is protected and kept secure from bombs attacks and anything else (ref. to VILLAVERDE)
- is confident 1a, assured in expectation 1b, free from danger 2a, provided with a secure place 2c, certain about their fate 3 (ref. to Gee's Webster's definition of secure)

is not necessary safe
- is not necessary healthy and sound 4, is not necessary reliable 7 (ref. to Webster's definition of safe)

"Olympics were safe, secure, and worth the risk."
If Art Thiel is lining up the words, it's because each of them introduces a step further in the meaning.
Olympics were safe: no terrorist attack took place.
Olympics were secure: safety mesures had been implemented.
Olympics were worth the risk: there was a risk though that was worth running as nothing bad happened.

As Hortence dropped the hint, there is never 100% chance that security provide safety.

------
"provide" as a subjunctive present because it is a possibility rather than a fact. You agree, don't you?
"He that's secure is not safe." As often in short sayings the subtlety lies in shades of word meanings. Who is secure - is protected and kept secure from bombs attacks and anything else (ref. to VILLAVERDE) - is confident 1a, assured in expectation 1b, free from danger 2a, provided with a secure place 2c, certain about their fate 3 (ref. to Gee's Webster's definition of secure) is not necessary safe - is not necessary healthy and sound 4, is not necessary reliable 7 (ref. to Webster's definition of safe) "Olympics were safe, secure, and worth the risk." If Art Thiel is lining up the words, it's because each of them introduces a step further in the meaning. Olympics were safe: no terrorist attack took place. Olympics were secure: safety mesures had been implemented. Olympics were worth the risk: there was a risk though that was worth running as nothing bad happened. As Hortence dropped the hint, there is never 100% chance that security provide safety. ------ "provide" as a subjunctive present because it is a possibility rather than a fact. You agree, don't you?
LiLi
User since 2009
Posts: 72
27 March 2009

I'm taking any chance at saying that you are right,
wise (Ayeo)man!
I'm taking any chance at saying that you are right, wise (Ayeo)man!
VILLAVERDE
User since 2007
Posts: 14
28 March 2009

Thanks Gee but I am not magnifico!! It is a pleasure to meet people with such mastery of grammar. After read all your opinions , I have the impression of being an safebreaker (us. safecraker=someone who opens SAFES using force and steals the valuable thinks from inside)
I do not feel safe to express my views correctly but while I am running the risk of mistakes, I think I'm with you in safe hands. Sorry, I think someone is at the main entrance of this forum and we need to secure against/from intruders.
Thanks Gee but I am not magnifico!! It is a pleasure to meet people with such mastery of grammar. After read all your opinions , I have the impression of being an safebreaker (us. safecraker=someone who opens SAFES using force and steals the valuable thinks from inside) I do not feel safe to express my views correctly but while I am running the risk of mistakes, I think I'm with you in safe hands. Sorry, I think someone is at the main entrance of this forum and we need to secure against/from intruders.
AhQ ['a: kiu]
User since 2006
Posts: 2715
29 March 2009

So, at the moment you left, there was someone stealing* into this forum. No doubt that was a thief who had come to steal** some English words from our vocabulary stock.
Thanks to you, Villaverde-not-magnifico-but-our-bro, the words stock is secure!
About running risk while feeling safe, we now know what to think about!

That's the best way to learn words, buddy. (Just don't be a fool about my so-called safe hands.) The way of acquiring voc. is to insert new learned words in different sentences, just as you do.

Wish a bountiful harvest of words to the safebreaker you've got to be.

[CW]
* to steal (v.i.) into the forum is to introduce secretly into it for the simple reason that, as far as he is a deft safebreaker, the intruder could be able to smuggle out a lot of good words he stole (** v.tr.) from the safe.
So, at the moment you left, there was someone stealing* into this forum. No doubt that was a thief who had come to steal** some English words from our vocabulary stock. Thanks to you, Villaverde-not-magnifico-but-our-bro, the words stock is secure! About running risk while feeling safe, we now know what to think about! That's the best way to learn words, buddy. (Just don't be a fool about my so-called safe hands.) The way of acquiring voc. is to insert new learned words in different sentences, just as you do. Wish a bountiful harvest of words to the safebreaker you've got to be. [CW] * to steal (v.i.) into the forum is to introduce secretly into it for the simple reason that, as far as he is a deft safebreaker, the intruder could be able to smuggle out a lot of good words he stole (** v.tr.) from the safe.

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