help

User since 2007
Posts: 1

15 Dec. 2009

Hi to all
could someone explain to me why in the below sentence, we use WILL instead of IS.

Susie: Everyone's wondering when she will return.

I was wondering if we should not put the following verb in the present when using WHEN (e.g WHEN I am rich, I will by a car).

Cheers
Dexter

Freddie

User since 2009
Posts: 49

15 Jan. 2010

Hi you all,

what a nice New Year present from Sandy and his uncle in Britain to us! On behalf of all grammarians who certainly didn't remark that Sandy has done a lot of extraordinary fine homework I would like to express my deepest esteem!

Freddie

User since 2009
Posts: 49

22 Dec. 2009

Indirect questions:

It has not yet been decided when the excursion will take place.

There was no information about when the relief bus would arrive.

(Ungerer/Meier/Schäfer/Lechler, Grammatik des heutigen Englisch)
Klett Verlag Stuttgart, 2000

Freddie

User since 2009
Posts: 49

19 Dec. 2009

Hi you all?
Why don't you put your discussion into the grammar chapter?

Freddie

User since 2009
Posts: 49

19 Dec. 2009

Hello Mr. Haven and Miss Deusi or Mr. Deusi (perhaps little Amadeus?)

I follow your expertise with great interest: But be careful! Don't confound, confuse the conditional sentences (if) with the temporal sentences!(when)

AhQ ['a: kiu]

User since 2006
Posts: 2715

30 Dec. 2009

I am back on Abbe Dexter's concern.
I sent an uncle of mine who is nothing of a grammarian but a police officer in a city of England, the following question.
"Here are two statements.
1. Everyone is wondering when Sue will return.
2. Everyone is wondering when Sue returns.
I suspect the first one to be correct. But is the second one quite wrong? Isn't it a way of speaking in the street?"

Here is my uncle Bob's answer (copied and pasted):
"(...) To answer you grammar question; either version is correct by reason of long standing common usage but 'when Sue will return' is probably academically better. If my limited understanding of French is correct, we have many more acceptable ways of saying the same thing in English than is acceptable in French.(...)

Wish you all cucumbers from across the Rhine, masters of English grammar and famous offspring of Goethe, a funky rumble tumble fest at the turn of the year.
Rumble with so many popping champagne bublles.
Tumble as teeter is the normal behavior of a drunk guy.
And the festal moment should be a fest and a feast altogether.
(s) The bad gal.

I am back on Abbe Dexter's concern. 
 I sent an uncle of mine who is nothing of a grammarian but a police officer in a city of England, the following question. 
 "Here are two statements. 
 1. Everyone is wondering when Sue will return. 
 2. Everyone is wondering when Sue returns. 
 I suspect the first one to be correct. But is the second one quite wrong? Isn't it a way of speaking in the street?"  
 
 
 Here is my uncle Bob's answer (copied and pasted): 
 "(...) To answer you grammar question; either version is correct by reason of long standing common usage but 'when Sue will return' is probably academically better. If my limited understanding of French is correct, we have many more acceptable ways of saying the same thing in English than is acceptable in French.(...)  
 
 
 Wish you all cucumbers from across the Rhine, masters of English grammar and famous offspring of Goethe, a funky rumble tumble fest at the turn of the year. 
 Rumble with so many popping champagne bublles. 
 Tumble as teeter is the normal behavior of a drunk guy. 
 And the festal moment should be a fest and a feast altogether. 
 (s) The bad gal.

AhQ ['a: kiu]

User since 2006
Posts: 2715

23 Dec. 2009

Hi you all grammarians, Ursel, Deusi and Co.

I thank you for your warning me. This is a grammar lesson at its finest.

If I said I hade never heard a future tense after when, it must be that I am getting deaf without being aware of it, or that I am suffering from huge lapses of memory. Anyway I never know what I am ignoring.

Following up on your remarks, I made further research.
Deusi tells that the simple present to render future events is very rare (timetable future). That surprises me. I thought English often used simple present and present continuous to discuss future events: present simple for timetables and scheduled things (tomorrow the trains starts at 6; we have an appointment next week.) or something planned (we are having a party at Xmas eve.)
Moreover every time a main clause is in the future the relative starting with when must be in the present.
When you arrive tonight my boyfriend will welcome you.
We will leave when dad arrives (from Answers.com)
I'll call you when I get there.
I'll do it when I have time.(from Robert & Collins)
Next week Susie will be wondering when Bruno returns.
When I am wealthy, I'll buy a car.

If the main clause is in the present (simple or perfect), I notice that the future may be used in the relative starting with when to express a future event.
Everyone is wondering when Susie will be back.
It has not yet been decided when the excursion will take place.
I wonder when it's going to rain.

Nevertheless, in spite of that possibility to use the future in the relative clause, I for one do prefer a more direct form, even though it's not formal English but 'das heutige English' heard in the street. I'd say:
Everyone is wondering when Susie is to return/is due to return.
I wonder when she comes again.
Let me know when you post your next tip.
Let me know when you leave the office.
Is that actually wrong?

I'd like to remind you some idioms:
When the cat is away, the mice will play.
When pigs fly! (French: quand les poules auront des dents! Utopian future.)

Looking forward to a next lesson.
Your bad gal,
Sandy

Hi you all grammarians, Ursel, Deusi and Co.  
 
 
 I thank you for your warning me. This is a grammar lesson at its finest.  
 
 
 If I said I hade never heard a future tense after when, it must be that I am getting deaf without being aware of it, or that I am suffering from huge lapses of memory. Anyway I never know what I am ignoring.  
 
 
 Following up on your remarks, I made further research. 
 Deusi tells that the simple present to render future events is very rare (timetable future). That surprises me. I thought English often used simple present and present continuous to discuss future events: present simple for timetables and scheduled things (tomorrow the trains starts at 6; we have an appointment next week.) or something planned (we are having a party at Xmas eve.) 
 Moreover every time a main clause is in the future the relative starting with when must be in the present. 
 When you arrive tonight my boyfriend will welcome you. 
 We will leave when dad arrives (from Answers.com) 
 I'll call you when I get there. 
 I'll do it when I have time.(from Robert & Collins) 
 Next week Susie will be wondering when Bruno returns. 
 When I am wealthy, I'll buy a car.  
 
 
 If the main clause is in the present (simple or perfect), I notice that the future may be used in the relative starting with when to express a future event. 
 Everyone is wondering when Susie will be back. 
 It has not yet been decided when the excursion will take place. 
 I wonder when it's going to rain.  
 
 
 Nevertheless, in spite of that possibility to use the future in the relative clause, I for one do prefer a more direct form, even though it's not formal English but 'das heutige English' heard in the street. I'd say: 
 Everyone is wondering when Susie is to return/is due to return. 
 I wonder when she comes again. 
 Let me know when you post your next tip. 
 Let me know when you leave the office. 
 Is that actually wrong?  
 
 
 I'd like to remind you some idioms: 
 When the cat is away, the mice will play. 
 When pigs fly! (French: quand les poules auront des dents! Utopian future.)  
 
 
 Looking forward to a next lesson. 
 Your bad gal, 
 Sandy

AhQ ['a: kiu]

User since 2006
Posts: 2715

21 Dec. 2009

Never heard a future tense after when!

AhQ ['a: kiu]

User since 2006
Posts: 2715

16 Dec. 2009

If Susie has spoken so badly, she should be told off.
When she speaks wrong again, don't fail to correct her say, Dexter.

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