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Abbe Dexter

User since 2007
Posts: 1

15 Dec. 2009

Hi to all
could someone explain to me why in the below sentence, we use WILL instead of IS.

Susie: Everyone's wondering when she will return.

I was wondering if we should not put the following verb in the present when using WHEN (e.g WHEN I am rich, I will by a car).

Cheers
Dexter

9 comments

AhQ ['a: kiu]
User since 2006
Posts: 2715
16 Dec. 2009

If Susie has spoken so badly, she should be told off.
When she speaks wrong again, don't fail to correct her say, Dexter.
If Susie has spoken so badly, she should be told off. When she speaks wrong again, don't fail to correct her say, Dexter.
Fugendichter
User since 2008
Posts: 588
19 Dec. 2009

Hi Dexter Haven!

I don't understand quite well, what you intend to say.
I suppose you propose one of the following compound sentences:

1.Susie is wondering when she returns.
or
2.Susie will be wondering when she will return.

Next question: is the "she" the same subject as Susie or is it another female being?
Then: "To wonder when..." means to ask oneself, when she or he will come back.

I can see no fault in that.

ad 1. This sentence isn't correct, because the fact of returning will be in the future, whereas the fact of asking oneself lies in the present.
2. This sentence isn't correct, because Susie asks herself in that moment and not in the future, whereas the coming back will be a future action.
Furthermore the use of the present tense is very restricted in English. See the rules! The simple present to render future events is very rare (timetable future)
Hi Dexter Haven! I don't understand quite well, what you intend to say. I suppose you propose one of the following compound sentences: 1.Susie is wondering when she returns. or 2.Susie will be wondering when she will return. Next question: is the "she" the same subject as Susie or is it another female being? Then: "To wonder when..." means to ask oneself, when she or he will come back. I can see no fault in that. ad 1. This sentence isn't correct, because the fact of returning will be in the future, whereas the fact of asking oneself lies in the present. 2. This sentence isn't correct, because Susie asks herself in that moment and not in the future, whereas the coming back will be a future action. Furthermore the use of the present tense is very restricted in English. See the rules! The simple present to render future events is very rare (timetable future)
Freddie
User since 2009
Posts: 49
19 Dec. 2009

Hello Mr. Haven and Miss Deusi or Mr. Deusi (perhaps little Amadeus?)

I follow your expertise with great interest: But be careful! Don't confound, confuse the conditional sentences (if) with the temporal sentences!(when)
Hello Mr. Haven and Miss Deusi or Mr. Deusi (perhaps little Amadeus?) I follow your expertise with great interest: But be careful! Don't confound, confuse the conditional sentences (if) with the temporal sentences!(when)
Freddie
User since 2009
Posts: 49
19 Dec. 2009

Hi you all?
Why don't you put your discussion into the grammar chapter?
Hi you all? Why don't you put your discussion into the grammar chapter?
AhQ ['a: kiu]
User since 2006
Posts: 2715
21 Dec. 2009

Never heard a future tense after when!
Never heard a future tense after when!
Freddie
User since 2009
Posts: 49
22 Dec. 2009

Indirect questions:

It has not yet been decided when the excursion will take place.

There was no information about when the relief bus would arrive.

(Ungerer/Meier/Schäfer/Lechler, Grammatik des heutigen Englisch)
Klett Verlag Stuttgart, 2000
Indirect questions: It has not yet been decided when the excursion will take place. There was no information about when the relief bus would arrive. (Ungerer/Meier/Schäfer/Lechler, Grammatik des heutigen Englisch) Klett Verlag Stuttgart, 2000
AhQ ['a: kiu]
User since 2006
Posts: 2715
23 Dec. 2009

Hi you all grammarians, Ursel, Deusi and Co.

I thank you for your warning me. This is a grammar lesson at its finest.

If I said I hade never heard a future tense after when, it must be that I am getting deaf without being aware of it, or that I am suffering from huge lapses of memory. Anyway I never know what I am ignoring.

Following up on your remarks, I made further research.
Deusi tells that the simple present to render future events is very rare (timetable future). That surprises me. I thought English often used simple present and present continuous to discuss future events: present simple for timetables and scheduled things (tomorrow the trains starts at 6; we have an appointment next week.) or something planned (we are having a party at Xmas eve.)
Moreover every time a main clause is in the future the relative starting with when must be in the present.
When you arrive tonight my boyfriend will welcome you.
We will leave when dad arrives (from Answers.com)
I'll call you when I get there.
I'll do it when I have time.(from Robert & Collins)
Next week Susie will be wondering when Bruno returns.
When I am wealthy, I'll buy a car.

If the main clause is in the present (simple or perfect), I notice that the future may be used in the relative starting with when to express a future event.
Everyone is wondering when Susie will be back.
It has not yet been decided when the excursion will take place.
I wonder when it's going to rain.

Nevertheless, in spite of that possibility to use the future in the relative clause, I for one do prefer a more direct form, even though it's not formal English but 'das heutige English' heard in the street. I'd say:
Everyone is wondering when Susie is to return/is due to return.
I wonder when she comes again.
Let me know when you post your next tip.
Let me know when you leave the office.
Is that actually wrong?

I'd like to remind you some idioms:
When the cat is away, the mice will play.
When pigs fly! (French: quand les poules auront des dents! Utopian future.)

Looking forward to a next lesson.
Your bad gal,
Sandy
Hi you all grammarians, Ursel, Deusi and Co. I thank you for your warning me. This is a grammar lesson at its finest. If I said I hade never heard a future tense after when, it must be that I am getting deaf without being aware of it, or that I am suffering from huge lapses of memory. Anyway I never know what I am ignoring. Following up on your remarks, I made further research. Deusi tells that the simple present to render future events is very rare (timetable future). That surprises me. I thought English often used simple present and present continuous to discuss future events: present simple for timetables and scheduled things (tomorrow the trains starts at 6; we have an appointment next week.) or something planned (we are having a party at Xmas eve.) Moreover every time a main clause is in the future the relative starting with when must be in the present. When you arrive tonight my boyfriend will welcome you. We will leave when dad arrives (from Answers.com) I'll call you when I get there. I'll do it when I have time.(from Robert & Collins) Next week Susie will be wondering when Bruno returns. When I am wealthy, I'll buy a car. If the main clause is in the present (simple or perfect), I notice that the future may be used in the relative starting with when to express a future event. Everyone is wondering when Susie will be back. It has not yet been decided when the excursion will take place. I wonder when it's going to rain. Nevertheless, in spite of that possibility to use the future in the relative clause, I for one do prefer a more direct form, even though it's not formal English but 'das heutige English' heard in the street. I'd say: Everyone is wondering when Susie is to return/is due to return. I wonder when she comes again. Let me know when you post your next tip. Let me know when you leave the office. Is that actually wrong? I'd like to remind you some idioms: When the cat is away, the mice will play. When pigs fly! (French: quand les poules auront des dents! Utopian future.) Looking forward to a next lesson. Your bad gal, Sandy
AhQ ['a: kiu]
User since 2006
Posts: 2715
30 Dec. 2009

I am back on Abbe Dexter's concern.
I sent an uncle of mine who is nothing of a grammarian but a police officer in a city of England, the following question.
"Here are two statements.
1. Everyone is wondering when Sue will return.
2. Everyone is wondering when Sue returns.
I suspect the first one to be correct. But is the second one quite wrong? Isn't it a way of speaking in the street?"

Here is my uncle Bob's answer (copied and pasted):
"(...) To answer you grammar question; either version is correct by reason of long standing common usage but 'when Sue will return' is probably academically better. If my limited understanding of French is correct, we have many more acceptable ways of saying the same thing in English than is acceptable in French.(...)

Wish you all cucumbers from across the Rhine, masters of English grammar and famous offspring of Goethe, a funky rumble tumble fest at the turn of the year.
Rumble with so many popping champagne bublles.
Tumble as teeter is the normal behavior of a drunk guy.
And the festal moment should be a fest and a feast altogether.
(s) The bad gal.
I am back on Abbe Dexter's concern. I sent an uncle of mine who is nothing of a grammarian but a police officer in a city of England, the following question. "Here are two statements. 1. Everyone is wondering when Sue will return. 2. Everyone is wondering when Sue returns. I suspect the first one to be correct. But is the second one quite wrong? Isn't it a way of speaking in the street?" Here is my uncle Bob's answer (copied and pasted): "(...) To answer you grammar question; either version is correct by reason of long standing common usage but 'when Sue will return' is probably academically better. If my limited understanding of French is correct, we have many more acceptable ways of saying the same thing in English than is acceptable in French.(...) Wish you all cucumbers from across the Rhine, masters of English grammar and famous offspring of Goethe, a funky rumble tumble fest at the turn of the year. Rumble with so many popping champagne bublles. Tumble as teeter is the normal behavior of a drunk guy. And the festal moment should be a fest and a feast altogether. (s) The bad gal.
Freddie
User since 2009
Posts: 49
15 Jan. 2010

Hi you all,

what a nice New Year present from Sandy and his uncle in Britain to us! On behalf of all grammarians who certainly didn't remark that Sandy has done a lot of extraordinary fine homework I would like to express my deepest esteem!
Hi you all, what a nice New Year present from Sandy and his uncle in Britain to us! On behalf of all grammarians who certainly didn't remark that Sandy has done a lot of extraordinary fine homework I would like to express my deepest esteem!

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